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jaster is back in black
Mod Emperor of Dune


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallie wrote:
Too soon.

But that is a pretty hot picture.


¿Qué?
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When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
-Children of Dune, attributed to Louis Veuillot
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kallie is not selling out nearly enough, apparently.
Lifthrasir


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 1349

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaster wrote:
awerbos wrote:
I'm really not seeing how that disagrees with what I said; the agreement on common meaning is what defines language.


It was just a quick response to the implication not non-religious language is so much clearer. My only point that 'agreement on common meaning' is a tough thing to come by, and tougher (maybe impossible) to recognize.


We all need to man up to this fellow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Grice

and his Maxims.
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awerbos
Mendicant


Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaster wrote:
It was just a quick response to the implication not non-religious language is so much clearer. My only point that 'agreement on common meaning' is a tough thing to come by, and tougher (maybe impossible) to recognize.


There was no such implication.
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kallie is not selling out nearly enough, apparently.
Lifthrasir


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 1349

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaster wrote:
kallie wrote:
Too soon.

But that is a pretty hot picture.


¿Qué?


Usually, a Spanish-speaking person will say "¿Como?"
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mchicken is dejected.
Cover of Rush's Seminal Album


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 3835

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallie wrote:
jaster wrote:
kallie wrote:
Too soon.

But that is a pretty hot picture.


¿Qué?


Usually, a Spanish-speaking person will say "¿Como?"


Vernon isn't a Spanish-speaking person, so this isn't relevant. You broke one of Grice's maxims. After about 2 seconds.

Good job.

Also I think DOOMCom would explode if it had to live by those things.
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kallie is not selling out nearly enough, apparently.
Lifthrasir


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 1349

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchicken wrote:
kallie wrote:
jaster wrote:
kallie wrote:
Too soon.

But that is a pretty hot picture.


¿Qué?


Usually, a Spanish-speaking person will say "¿Como?"


Vernon isn't a Spanish-speaking person, so this isn't relevant. You broke one of Grice's maxims. After about 2 seconds.

Good job.

Also I think DOOMCom would explode if it had to live by those things.


That was purely for his own edification and the promotion of my ego. So it's relevant.
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kallie is not selling out nearly enough, apparently.
Lifthrasir


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 1349

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchicken wrote:
Also I think DOOMCom would explode if it had to live by those things.


I've always thought that the reason we're all so funny is because we understand them inherently and we choose to break them for comedic purposes.






... Actually, I came up with that just now, but if I were staying in Course 9, that's definitely what my next paper would be about.


Last edited by kallie on Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mchicken is dejected.
Cover of Rush's Seminal Album


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallie wrote:
mchicken wrote:
Also I think DOOMCom would explode if it had to live by those things.


I've always thought that the reason we're all so funny is because we understand them inherently and we choose to break them for comedic purposes.


I think we're just cruel, but I wish that it were not so.
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kallie is not selling out nearly enough, apparently.
Lifthrasir


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Posts: 1349

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchicken wrote:
kallie wrote:
mchicken wrote:
Also I think DOOMCom would explode if it had to live by those things.


I've always thought that the reason we're all so funny is because we understand them inherently and we choose to break them for comedic purposes.


I think we're just cruel, but I wish that it were not so.


And that cruelty just happens to coincide with breaking Grice's Maxims?
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mchicken is dejected.
Cover of Rush's Seminal Album


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallie wrote:
mchicken wrote:
kallie wrote:
mchicken wrote:
Also I think DOOMCom would explode if it had to live by those things.


I've always thought that the reason we're all so funny is because we understand them inherently and we choose to break them for comedic purposes.


I think we're just cruel, but I wish that it were not so.


And that cruelty just happens to coincide with breaking Grice's Maxims?


Maxims which just formalize basic human decency? Yes.
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lugo is unable to remember his password.
Such an Aries


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I need to stop going to bed around 10, these conversations go to all sorts of crazy places while I sleep.

And yes, I do believe that adopting a magickal mindset is different from the powers of positive thinking. More on that when I get home from work if people are still being civil.

Glad to see we passed through atheism in conversation already.
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lizakova is shinying up her life.
Kitty Guardian


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lugo wrote:
I guess I need to stop going to bed around 10, these conversations go to all sorts of crazy places while I sleep.


Seriously. When I went to bed last night, DOOMCom was happily participating in the time-honored tradition of making fun of Senior House. I wake up this morning and there's religion, there's religion-hating, there's clashing world views, there's Kallie becoming a lesbian...what happened to this place? It used to be all about the dancing and loving.
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awerbos
Mendicant


Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lizakova wrote:
there's Kallie becoming a lesbian.


Only slightly.
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jaster is back in black
Mod Emperor of Dune


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

awerbos wrote:
Only slightly.


01
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When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
-Children of Dune, attributed to Louis Veuillot
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lugo is unable to remember his password.
Such an Aries


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright... don't think I have the time to tackle the difference between positive thinking and a magickal state of mind in depth right now. It is hard to convince someone of a difference, really. Someone who doesn't believe in magick would consider anything related to magick that could possibly be attributed to positive thinking/self-hypnosis/whatever as caused by it.

Magickal thinking in its most basic form involves believing that when you work magick and attain your intended results, your magick caused the results. That's sort of a given, but it's important to understand that any explanation on my part could be pretty much ruled out by science. This makes sense because science is about observing events, and a magickal event is still an event that has an observable cause. We just believe that the observed cause and the magickal cause can both be "real". So, no, science will likely never find a fundamental magickal force.

Science and magick aren't really compatible. When people try to mix them, they end up sounding like asshats. People still say "energy" with reference to magick because of that nonsense. People who practice it like to seize on any popular science understanding they have to explain what is happening, but it doesn't take a scientist to realize they are badly abusing terms and meanings to try and legitimize a belief structure which shouldn't concern itself with legitimacy. Quantum physics has been recently victimized by this tendency.

Now: Why do I call myself Wiccan when I don't believe 80% of what other Wiccans say?

Wiccan is a pretty general term. Wicca has separate traditions which are their own belief systems with a couple common beliefs. Dianic is one tradition. Wicca is to Dianic Wicca as Christianity is to Roman Catholicism. Even Catholics disagree with each other. So, the difference between, say, mormonism and eastern orthodox is aproximately the same as the difference between Dianic Wicca and Seax Wicca (another tradition). I'm an eclectic Wiccan, which is a Wiccan who belongs to no particular tradition. Essentially, my beliefs are my own tradition. I find Dianic Wicca completely laughable, as well as Gardnerian Wicca, and most other traditions I am familiar with. My girlfriend and I tend to worship/practice together, and even though we agree on much we still have plenty we disagree on. She uses a wand. I do not. She prefers using ribbons and herbs for spellwork. I prefer using found items like feathers or snake skins or dumpster OJ.

Most eclectics, in my experience, hold multiple shallow and contradictory views and pretty much only add new ones instead of refining old beliefs in a search for truth. I think this is stupid. There's actually a branch of western magickal thought called Chaos Magick which involves switching your paradigms completely at will and, essentially, believing in everything when it is convenient and nothing when it is not.

Anyways, I identify as Wiccan because I follow the Wiccan Rede and believe in a pair of composite spiritual entities who symbolically represent all polarities in the universe. I identify to you as Wiccan because it is a good shorthand for what I am: a witch who has an altar with candles and stuff in his house. When I say I am Wiccan, you pretty much know what I mean and any differences between your thoughts and reality are mostly meaningless to someone on the outside.

You really shouldn't ask me questions about myself.
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