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mchicken is dejected.
Cover of Rush's Seminal Album


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 3835

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallie wrote:
defend religion as something wonderful and happy for all of humanity.


I never said that, not even once. The only thing I have said is that I dislike DOOMCom's constant religion bashing. I think it is at best pointless.

And I was of course joking about my brother's cult. Most of what I've said about them is that if I wanted to believe in the Bible fully and live what it says, that is the best place I have seen for that.

awerbos wrote:
Yeah, but eternal life is one of those few things that only religion can offer you.


It can offer any number of other things. Wishes, magic, all kinds of things that don't exist, like eternal life.

awerbos wrote:
I think it's disingenuous to compare someone believing in religion and someone using religion to manipulate others.


I wasn't comparing anything, I was listing properties.

awerbos wrote:
Religion could almost never be considered real. However, since the terms people use to discuss religion are themselves so poorly defined, that's hardly a subject that's pleasant to discuss.


Yes.

awerbos wrote:
You'll need to explain that third one. At least, why religion would be something good to do in that situation (as opposed to something more mundane like DOOMCom solidarity).


DOOMCom and DOOMCom solidarity is a religion. Worship at your own risk.

awerbos wrote:
And when it doesn't, you'll be glad that secular humanism charted a stable philosophical course made possible by relentless inquisition of the human mind and its interactions with superstition.


Except apparently we're supposed to eat from the garbage and ride around in shitty powerless cars and not have insurance when people who can't drive run into us on the street for no reason. Unfortunately things are slightly less relentless than they should be. This is why we need the God-Emperor to take over.
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kallie is +2
Lifthrasir


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 1350

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchicken wrote:
Except apparently we're supposed to eat from the garbage and ride around in shitty powerless cars and not have insurance when people who can't drive run into us on the street for no reason.


Nah, pretty sure all those people are Wiccans.
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mchicken is dejected.
Cover of Rush's Seminal Album


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 3835

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaster wrote:
I also that that people need to disambiguate the concepts of religion and of a church. Religion is something of a practice or methodology bent towards (in one sense or another) things unexplained or unexplainable. A church (that is to say a religious organization... not the building) is a social organization like any other (in most respects).

I'm not saying that this is the case across the board, but I think there are some crossed wires regarding the distinction.


Yes. When I said a fun thing to do with your friends, that would refer mostly to the church. The "because it's real" part would refer to a religion.

And what I dislike is the religion bashing. I love the church bashing. If things are unexplained or especially unexplainable, you can't blame someone for choosing an explanation that they like/can believe in/"feel"/"think"/"know" and adding that to their framework, unless that results in the nonsense that most religions and/or churches lead to. Like Crusades various holy wars and weird religious racism stuff.
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awerbos
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Joined: 29 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaster wrote:
I also that that people need to disambiguate the concepts of religion and of a church. Religion is something of a practice or methodology bent towards (in one sense or another) things unexplained or unexplainable. A church (that is to say a religious organization... not the building) is a social organization like any other (in most respects).


I think your specifics are wrong, but you're right in the general case; the terms here are poorly defined. Words like "religion" and "god" and "church" are, from a scientific standpoint of evaluation, ineffectual for communication. They do not precisely share meaning. That is why any general discussion of religion is no fun to participate in.

jaster wrote:
++Edit: also, just be sure to keep it civil guys. Discussion is good, attacks are bad. We've seen it happen on the forums before.++


Don't do that.
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mchicken is dejected.
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallie wrote:
mchicken wrote:
Except apparently we're supposed to eat from the garbage and ride around in shitty powerless cars and not have insurance when people who can't drive run into us on the street for no reason.


Nah, pretty sure all those people are Wiccans.


Senior House?
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jaster is back in black
Mod Emperor of Dune


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchicken wrote:
This is why we need the God-Emperor to take over.


What a beast... easily 1.5 beasts.
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When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
-Children of Dune, attributed to Louis Veuillot
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kallie is +2
Lifthrasir


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaster wrote:
mchicken wrote:
This is why we need the God-Emperor to take over.


What a beast... easily 1.5 beasts.


666... beasts?
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kallie is +2
Lifthrasir


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Posts: 1350

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchicken wrote:
kallie wrote:
mchicken wrote:
Except apparently we're supposed to eat from the garbage and ride around in shitty powerless cars and not have insurance when people who can't drive run into us on the street for no reason.


Nah, pretty sure all those people are Wiccans.


Senior House?


Yes. Blessed be and so forth.
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mchicken is dejected.
Cover of Rush's Seminal Album


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallie wrote:
jaster wrote:
mchicken wrote:
This is why we need the God-Emperor to take over.


What a beast... easily 1.5 beasts.


666... beasts?


Not even a little bit. Pretty much just one. Whose number of his name is that. Whatever that means. They covered number-names in Pi.
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jaster is back in black
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

awerbos wrote:
Words like "religion" and "god" and "church" are, from a scientific standpoint of evaluation, ineffectual for communication. They do not precisely share meaning. That is why any general discussion of religion is no fun to participate in.


I think that you have an overly charitable view of ordinary language. Example

awerbos wrote:
Don't do that.


Things have gotten catty on the forums is times past. It was this or a collage of hugs.
_________________
When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
-Children of Dune, attributed to Louis Veuillot
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kallie is +2
Lifthrasir


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 1350

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchicken wrote:
kallie wrote:
jaster wrote:
mchicken wrote:
This is why we need the God-Emperor to take over.


What a beast... easily 1.5 beasts.


666... beasts?


Not even a little bit. Pretty much just one. Whose number of his name is that. Whatever that means. They covered number-names in Pi.


What a pretentious black-and-white excuse for a movie.
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mchicken is dejected.
Cover of Rush's Seminal Album


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 3835

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaster wrote:
awerbos wrote:
Words like "religion" and "god" and "church" are, from a scientific standpoint of evaluation, ineffectual for communication. They do not precisely share meaning. That is why any general discussion of religion is no fun to participate in.


I think that you have an overly charitable view of ordinary language. Example

awerbos wrote:
Don't do that.


Things have gotten catty on the forums is times past. It was this or a collage of hugs.


I am amused by the first example, which indicates that Emily isn't able to participate in our discussions.

Are you sure he wasn't referring to stealth edits?
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jaster is back in black
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did they cover it in Numb3rs?
_________________
When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
-Children of Dune, attributed to Louis Veuillot
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kallie is +2
Lifthrasir


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 1350

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaster wrote:
awerbos wrote:
Words like "religion" and "god" and "church" are, from a scientific standpoint of evaluation, ineffectual for communication. They do not precisely share meaning. That is why any general discussion of religion is no fun to participate in.


I think that you have an overly charitable view of ordinary language. Example

awerbos wrote:
Don't do that.


Things have gotten catty on the forums is times past. It was this or a collage of hugs.


Look, raise your hand if you've taken psycholinguistics?

And I want to see a collage of hugs.
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jaster is back in black
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchicken wrote:
Are you sure he wasn't referring to stealth edits?


Nope... because the language is ambiguous.

Zing.
_________________
When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
-Children of Dune, attributed to Louis Veuillot
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