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This is why we can't have nice things
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lugo is unable to remember his password.
Such an Aries


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I suppose my problem certainly isn't with currency as a concept. It is certainly a hell of a lot easier than barter. "Man, I'll give you sixty tomatoes to fix my car" is pretty ridiculous.

I am having a hard time describing what I am annoyed with due to never having studied it. I just don't know the words for it. It's certainly some aspect of socioeconomics. Companies need to make us want things in order to make money from us, so we become rampant consumers. Other people define us by what we have and what we have is directly related to how much money we have. I guess I hate consumerism and its associated implications?

Fuck it, I need to think this through more before I attempt to discuss it.
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kallie is +2
Lifthrasir


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on topic, the hypocrisy of being a "freegan" and despising the excessive consumer society is that they are completely dependent on that excess. It's ridiculous.

Also, having money is awesome. Just get a Course 1 degree.
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mchicken is dejected.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you would have less problem with it if you had a lot more money, though. In which case what I said before is true.
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mchicken is dejected.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallie wrote:
More on topic, the hypocrisy of being a "freegan" and despising the excessive consumer society is that they are completely dependent on that excess. It's ridiculous.


It's just the same Senior House bullshit all over again. Despising things they (obviously) love.
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lugo is unable to remember his password.
Such an Aries


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallie wrote:
More on topic, the hypocrisy of being a "freegan" and despising the excessive consumer society is that they are completely dependent on that excess. It's ridiculous.

Also, having money is awesome. Just get a Course 1 degree.


I need money to get a Course 1 degree. Har.

Yeah, if freegans really wanted to do something about it they'd try and live off the land instead of being the world's most self-righteous bums. For instance, they could join Tom's brother's commune.
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mchicken is dejected.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lugo wrote:
kallie wrote:
More on topic, the hypocrisy of being a "freegan" and despising the excessive consumer society is that they are completely dependent on that excess. It's ridiculous.

Also, having money is awesome. Just get a Course 1 degree.


I need money to get a Course 1 degree. Har.

Yeah, if freegans really wanted to do something about it they'd try and live off the land instead of being the world's most self-righteous bums. For instance, they could join Tom's brother's commune.


Except they make things (candles, paper, furniture, etc.) which they sell. And they run a cafe and sometimes a deli in every town they are in (to spread their message and make money). And they buy things. Good kosher (not blessed but following the same rules) food is hard to come by. My brother made a point that their fish was some stuff from New England that was special in some way that I no longer recall. They do have farms and herb gardens and all that I suppose. But they definitely buy things. And produce things. And contribute to the economy.
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lugo is unable to remember his password.
Such an Aries


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fucking sellouts.
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mchicken is dejected.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lugo wrote:
Fucking sellouts.


Except they're so not. They schedule the weddings based on the woman's menstrual cycle for maximum pregnancy efficiency, and it worked since I already have a two-month old nephew.
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lugo is unable to remember his password.
Such an Aries


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mchicken wrote:
lugo wrote:
Fucking sellouts.


Except they're so not. They schedule the weddings based on the woman's menstrual cycle for maximum pregnancy efficiency, and it worked since I already have a two-month old nephew.


Wow. Damn.
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lugo is unable to remember his password.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/The%20Zeitgeist%20Movement.pdf

Read that if you get bored. Only 83 pages. Not really prepared to buy this movement's vision of the future (I think it sounds pretty sweet, of course, just need to spend some time with the ramifications--it's a very Star Trekky, no-scarcity future) but they very nicely outline my problems with the current economic system.
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jaster is back in black
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebuttal:



Seriously though, I just skimmed through it a bit, but I feel as if the ultimate aim of the project is too limited in scope to achieve its own ends. That is to say that they very things the project does not seek to influence seem to form the basis for long-term instability in the system that the project seeks to create.

Also... I really can't get behind much of chapters 3, 4, 7, and 8... nizzle.
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lugo is unable to remember his password.
Such an Aries


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that it is pretty optimistic about alot of things, like 3,4,7,8. "Oh, sure, humans will just be friendly because of Science and because I say so," isn't really a valid course of action.

I mainly posted it because it manages to say what I wanted to say much nicer than I could at the time. Basically: Our economy is built to fuck most people over and it pretty much sucks to be one of those people who is getting fucked over, even if it is only a tiny fuck. It does "work" for certain values of "work", but we can do better than this.
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mchicken is dejected.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lugo wrote:
Basically: Our economy is built to fuck most people over and it pretty much sucks to be one of those people who is getting fucked over, even if it is only a tiny fuck. It does "work" for certain values of "work", but we can do better than this.


We really can't, not with what we have to work with. Science already says so.
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lugo is unable to remember his password.
Such an Aries


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Science already says we can't use more renewable energy? Science says we can't have electric cars? Science says we can't build things to last longer to reduce consumption?

I'm going to do my best to not champion this movement since I don't support all of it, but seriously?

Science says we can't come up with an alternative to insurance, a "service" which produces no real commodity and only serves to interact with a flawed system? Science says we can't come up with an economic model that doesn't involve rewarding people who already have way more than they need by taking away from people who don't have enough?

I mean, I don't know about all of that, but Sadoway would back me up on the electric cars at least.
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lizakova is shinying up her life.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lugo wrote:
I mean, I don't know about all of that, but Sadoway would back me up on the electric cars at least.


The man does love his batteries.
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