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awerbos
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Joined: 29 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lugo wrote:
Science and magick aren't really compatible.


Fair enough. First, let me see if I am distilling what entails magickal thought properly.

I would posit the following essence of magickal thought: belief in cause is sufficient proof for cause (in some cases, related to spells)

lugo wrote:
You really shouldn't ask me questions about myself.


Why not? You seem philosophically engaged in what you believe, which is better than most.
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Such an Aries


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To quote "S.S.O.T.B.M.E.: an essay on magic" concerning a spell of healing curing a sick woman:

"A practicing magician has no interest in the philosophical problems which torment the Scientist who asks 'Are you sure it was your Magic that cured her? How do you know it was not just coincidence?' Such speculation is irrelevant to the Magician. He did the spell, she was cured. If it was a coincidence, it doesn't matter just so long as he can bring about such coincidences."

"belief in cause is sufficient proof for cause (in some cases, related to spells)" works well enough. It's hard to agree with 100% as a magician (using magician as a general word to mean "one who works magic" as opposed to a member of the Western Ritual Magic Traditions, who are often simply called Magicians). Ideally, one doesn't "believe" a spell is going to work any more than one believes a cannonball will fall if dropped. The goal is a passive understanding rather than an active, forceful belief.

That said, when starting out, you do have to cultivate that understanding through forceful belief.

When I say you shouldn't ask me questions, I'm mainly saying I'll keep dragging the thread back to answer them with uncharacteristically long answers that aren't relevant to the current direction the thread has moved in.
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jaster is back in black
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lugo wrote:
When I say you shouldn't ask me questions, I'm mainly saying I'll keep dragging the thread back to answer them with uncharacteristically long answers that aren't relevant to the current direction the thread has moved in.


You're answers are high quality... roll with it, man.
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When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
-Children of Dune, attributed to Louis Veuillot
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Such an Aries


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In hindsight, I think it's worthwhile to mention that most Wiccans don't really think about how or why magick works and pretty much just consider it a form of flashy prayer.

I think this is stupid.
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awerbos
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we (Tom, kallie, myself) just watched King Arthur. Suffice it to say, the concepts of herbs, found objects, and belief sufficing for cause came up a great many times.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a pretty crappy movie.
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